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Brian M O'Curran

 

About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

Brian M O’Curran  July 17 2009 10:35:51 AM
I got a little intel this morning on a customer rumbling about looking at Exchange.  There's lots of tire-kickers right now to be sure.  There's lots of options for messaging.  People get stars in their eyes when they think about doing something new or being part of a project full of shiny new objects.  That being said, it's common knowledge there's no ROI or business-case to rip-out an optimized on premise messaging solution.  So, if you can remove the wanderlust from the equation - and that's not always possible - you can talk about facts.

I got this as part of an e-mail and thought it was so well crafted I'd share it with you.  Thanks Lisa. You're great!


Here's some bullet points.  Microsoft must be telling customers that since they have to upgrade Domino they might as well migrate it will cost the same and that of course isn't true.  Based on Ferris Research numbers a migration between email systems costs $300/user.  A Domino email upgrade will cost about $35 a user.    Also many customers don't realize that they do NOT have to upgrade their workstation hardware to upgrade to Notes 8.  We have a basic client option that will run on whatever desktop hardware they currently run Notes on.  

Also some other points if they are also considering Sharepoint....
  • Lotus Domino and MOSS are similar in that they are both application frameworks, and they both have a rich client.  Our rich client is Lotus Notes and Microsoft's rich client is Microsoft Office/Outlook.  
  • When a company makes the decision to go with Outlook and Sharepoint they are locking themselves into Microsoft technology for everything.  They must use Windows as their operating system (and intel hardware) because Windows is their application server, must use AD for the directory, must use Microsoft Office for document editing, must use Windows on their workstations, must use SQL as their database, must use IIS as their web server, must use .NET for development.  They are locked in.   Not so of Domino - you can run against any LDAP directory (for the web components), on any server platform, with any client workstation including Mac and Linux, our collaboration services allow you choice of database and choice of web server and standard Java development.    
  • Both Domino and MOSS support development of web applications
  • Development on Domino is done with Domino Designer and Java Tools and MOSS development is done with Microsoft Office Sharepoint Designer and ASP.NET tools
  • Domino has always provided backward compatibility for applications, you can run applications written for Version 3 on Domino 8.   In the MOSS world, applications always need to be reworked/re-written for an upgrade
  • Upgrade costs for Notes/Domino email are generally $35 a user.  Gartner has published numbers that the Exchange 5.5 to Exchange 2007 upgrade cost companies $244 per user.  
  • When upgrading Domino you just install the new software in place on the same hardware.  When upgrading Exchange or MOSS you are required to set up new servers and move the data from the old server to the newer server.  
  • The number of servers you need for Exchange is a lot.  One customer recently moved from Sendmail to Lotus Notes for 8,000 users.  With Domino they needed 4 servers with Exchange it would have been 44 servers.
  • We have customers who migrated from Notes email to Outlook and end-up running dual infrastructures because, even though Microsoft says its an easy task to convert applications, it is not.  After wasting millions of dollars trying, they don't get the ROI they originally thought and are paying for TWO platforms.  
  • Our Portal, Sametime and Connections products are common in Microsoft shops.  The reason is eventually Microsoft customers hit a wall and have application requirements Microsoft can't meet. They'll need the application integration, scalability and personalization features a true enterprise Portal provides.  Lotus Sametime integrates well with Office and Outlook and can provide instant messaging with a single server which is not possible with Microsoft's Office Communication Server.  Most customers realize Sharepoint creates silos of information and they can implement Connections to provide access to people and information enterprise-wide.  

Comments

1Roland Reddekop  7/17/2009 12:03:47 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

Change for the sake of change gives people the impression of making progress. But after 6 months to a year when the dust settles, if they're honest with themselves (rare for the decision maker) they'll conclude: "I substituted one mail system for another adding no value in the process. For email alone, the grass is rarely greener."

2Patrick Picard  7/17/2009 1:04:52 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

being the devil's advocate here. this statement is a rather large generalization without supporting evidence and seems anecdotal. I'd be curious to know what kind of changes are required

"In the MOSS world, applications always need to be reworked/re-written for an upgrade"

"Domino has always provided backward compatibility for applications, you can run applications written for Version 3 on Domino 8"

Becoming less and less true.

-Domino Doc. is not supported beyond domino 7

-Sametime 8.0.2 is not supported on domino 8.5

which leads to the next point:

"When upgrading Domino you just install the new software in place on the same hardware."

In the case of Sametime, im stuck moving it to a new server because it is not supported on Domino 8.5

Do you have the sources for the gartner studies, i'd be interested to read.

As a notes guy, I am fairly happy of the work IBM is doing, but it is not as rosy as everyone is touting. I.e have you ever seen an outlook client that crashes regularly, has bunch of UI quirks (LN 8.0.2 and 8.5 have plenty of quirks, which I hope are fixed in 8.5.1 as im not comfortable deploying either 802 or 85, 7.0.3 is the most stable client version to date)

3Luis Guirigay  7/17/2009 1:22:37 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

@ 2- Sametime 8.0.2 is not officially supported on 8.5 but it runs perfect. We have been running it for moths with not a single issue.

You can have a 8.5 deployment and still have one server running 8.0.2 - everything will work. Try to get a multiversion env in Exchange/AD/MOSS..

I agree Outlook may be a better email client for Windows OS since they all come for the same house (Microsoft)... but the Notes client is not just an Email client. Also, I have been running 8.5.1 for a while and you will be happy with it. Specially the Designer.... it is really nice.

4Philip Storry  7/17/2009 1:44:42 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

Patrick @2 - Play devil's advocate all you like, but your comparison is flawed.

Domino.Doc and SameTime are _products_, not Domino/Notes _applications_. Yes, they use the Domino platform - but they also have add-in tasks written in C/C++, and don't work without those tasks.

You've run off into another arena completely when bringing up those products. You may as well bring up RIM's Blackberry server software or IBM's Quickr.

The statement about compatibility is about NSF-only apps. And it's absolutely true in that regard. But if you start throwing in add-in server tasks, then you're going to the next level.

5Palmi  7/18/2009 10:30:25 AM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

I read on Ed Brill site " they spend millions of dollars going from stable email system to another stable

email system " so true BUT if the business analyst does his/her job right then it should be about system , business intelligent, Work flow and cost per user. IT overhead and cost, security and not the least backward compatibility ( missing something here ? )

@1 "if they're honest with themselves" they never due becuse that would cost them there jobs its sad.

people that say they hate notes have been composed to bad design applications and old version of LN and that is all they remember when someone says that they use notes.

6Phil Salm  7/18/2009 11:52:29 AM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

@2 I can tell you for a fact that Outlook does crash, and in my experience after initially upgrading to 2007, it crashed regularly. Lotus has not cornered the market on bugs in new releases. Welcome to the world of software.

7Sean Cull  7/18/2009 3:51:08 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

I'm not convinced about the stability of sametime 8.02 on 8.5.I can only speak of my experience on smallish development environments but removing it stopped the server from crashing

If it was 100% stable i am sure that IBM would say so because it is a real impediment to upgrading to 8.5 for smaller shops which use one server for everything

Sean

8John Turnbow  7/19/2009 2:02:24 PM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

You left out that Domino is open to everyone to develop on now utilizing a variety of open source tools. Microsoft, mmm.. well you are stuck with MS.

9Sean Cull  7/20/2009 3:28:41 AM  About to Pull the Trigger on Microsoft Exchange - HOLD ON!

sorry 8.5.1 should read 8.5.0 - wishfull thinking on my part



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